Who needs to go? - Defense

[Eaglez]

Trotter is still servicable. I'd rather spend money on two outstanding OLBs and have Trotter man the middle during running downs than do a wholesale liquidation of the LB corps.

Not that I don't want to, but as long as Trotter can stuff gaps effectively, and considering he's under contract for a relatively low price, I don't see a reason to get rid of him if the Eagles can sign two very effective OLBs in the off-season, like Thomas and Briggs.

the OLBs have been the bane of this defense for a very long time now. If anything, that is the most neglected position on the defense. If the Eagles sign two proven OLBs, then I think Trotter becomes that much more effective because his duties would be signficantly curtailed.

[Diomedes]

The team should not have players who need better supporting cast members to be good themselves.  They should be good.  The NFL MLB should be able to move laterally AND bust through the line.

These things are not too much to ask.

[PhillyPhreak54]

You guys are right. Like I said, since this team sucks it automatically means that every player on the roster sucks and shouldn't be in the NFL. Get rid of them all.

[rjs246]

Don't get in a huff, Phreak. The truth is that he would be better if the players to the outside of him were better. So would any MLB. But the OTHER truth, which you are ignoring, is that he is supposed to be a star and a leader of this defense and if all he can do is run straight ahead and plug a hole in the line, then he is a one-trick pony on a team that needs their ponies to turn as many tricks as possible.

He's done. If he were on a different team that didn't need him to do much he might have some value, but on this team, with this group of linebackers, he has no value. Reality.

[PhillyPhreak54]

Not in a huff. I know what type of player he is, just like you said he would be better if the surrounding cast were better. His one-trick-pony show appears as a glaring weakness now because the defense as a whole is crap. But when the supporting cast is able to do what they should be doing, he is fine. When the DL was playing well earlier in the year he was making plays at the line and in the backfield. He shoots gaps and he overpursues at times, we know that.

[Eaglez]

I agree. On THIS team he's not playing particularly well, but if the focus on the off-season is to get two very good OLBs to put on his left and right side then I think he can still be a good MLB in this league.

Trotter, at this point in his career, needs help. He can't do it by himself and I think its unreasonable to think he can turn in those 12-15 tackle performances that he used to. However, I don't think it makes sense to go out in the off-season and get a MLB, if there even is an MLB to be had, when a much more pressing need would be to get OLBs to support Trotter, who can still play if he gets the burden lifted off him of having to be 'the guy' to make every single play on the field.

Even though Trotter has lost some of his edge and talent, the incompetence of his fellow co-workers exemplifies the flaws that Trotter has and makes him seem that much worse.

[rjs246]

OK, so we're all saying the same thing but the rest of us are saying that we need an upgrade and you're saying that they don't which doesn't make any sense. You would rather have them upgrade the TWO positions to his outside and the FOUR positions in front of him to improve the effectiveness of the MLB... why not improve the MLB by getting a new MLB? That's only ONE position to upgrade.

[Eaglez]

Upgrading one position, I don't think, will make that much of a difference. Even if Trotter was to be replaced and we go into next year with McCoy and Gocong or Dhani then I still think that MLB will be taken out of the game, or seriously hampered, because the OLBs can't get to the outside and shed blocks and the front four can't occupy blockers and create gaps to hit.

At least with better OLBs teams can't consistently run to the outside and have to respect the lateral speed. That would filter more runs to Trotter and have him prove his worth. If he still can't handle that then he's garbage. Now, the Eagles have been thrashed up the middle this year, but not from the outset. Usually, teams set up the Eagles by establishing the corners and then when the Eagles are stretched teams then come up the gut and gash them there, too. If the Eagles can significantly take away the off-tackle runs, then they can effectively shorten the field and at least make it easier for Trotter to attack interior gaps and not have to move from sideline to sideline.

Fixing the front 4 is a problem as well. Trotter suffers from not having DTs that can eat up blockers. But with so much invested in Patterson and Bunkley smaller, not 330 lbs. DTs are in the Eagles future for a while. 

I'm not saying Trotter is faultless, but only addressing the MLB and neglecting the rest probably won't do a whole lot for this team.

Teach Pat McCoy to play DT. Put his lard ass to work.

[rjs246]

You're missing my point, Z (although I agree with yours)...

My point is that Phreak is talking about replacing the players around Trotter to make Trotter better. If you want a position to improve the solution should not be to replace everyone around that position. The solution should be to replace that position.

The entire front seven needs to be improved. We all agree on that. But the biggest improvement needs to come from the linebacking corps because right now Dhani is worthless, McCoy is an inexperienced Dhani and Trotter can only run straight ahead. That's awful and all three of them could be canned right now and I wouldn't bat an eyelash if I thought for a second that the front office would bring in someone young/talented/in possession of two knees.

[Munson]

Trotter is not the problem. Do they need to start grooming a replacement? Hell yeah...but I'd rather them concentrate on SAM, and possible WIL next year before they think about getting rid of Trotter. We're sitting here bitching about our undersized DT's and LB's, lets not go and get rid of our heaviest LB.

I miss Willie T

[PhilLeeD]

"I don't know what's going on, man," said linebacker Jeremiah Trotter. "I don't have answers right now."
and something about not wanting to be a Leader anymore because nobody is listening... 

Who is not listening, JJ?, Reid?, All of the other players on D?  Maybe nobody is listening because he is not making any plays either. 

Trotter is blind and even during the Jacksonville game he was running into the same blocks as the linemen and leaving gayyyping holes open for Fred Taylor to run through.  He may have got one of his last "Wood Chops" in Sunday Night.  I still think you have to work with all the Eagles have invested in on the DLine, but they need some serious BACK UP from LINEBACKERS (GET IT?)  They suppose to back the Line Up, not the other way around.

[The BIGSTUD]

I listened to Trotter's show on WIP tonight and you could tell he so badly wanted to say he wants better defensive players on the squad, but was holding back. He all but said it anyway. He said that it isn't good when he himself is bigger than most of the defensive lineman on the team. He also hinted that Dhani was too small to play SAM.

Ike Reese called in and pretty much said that Dhani Jones is not a SAM LB and hinted that he isn't even an NFL LB at all, said he hasn't seen enough of McCoy to have an opinion about him.

[ice grillin you]

trotters problem is that hes way to big to play...i noticed this in training camp...his ass is the size of lativia and not that he was ever a sideline to sidleine guy but hes lost a few steps because of it...now like rjs said he just runs to a hole btwn the OT's and trys to blast thru...he cant run any plays down at his current size

[PhillyPhreak54]

You're missing my point, Z (although I agree with yours)...

My point is that Phreak is talking about replacing the players around Trotter to make Trotter better. If you want a position to improve the solution should not be to replace everyone around that position. The solution should be to replace that position.

The entire front seven needs to be improved. We all agree on that. But the biggest improvement needs to come from the linebacking corps because right now Dhani is worthless, McCoy is an inexperienced Dhani and Trotter can only run straight ahead. That's awful and all three of them could be canned right now and I wouldn't bat an eyelash if I thought for a second that the front office would bring in someone young/talented/in possession of two knees.

What I am saying is that Trotter can play still. He's good at stopping the run and then he goes out in nickel. That works fine. But when they have two OLBs who can barely function and a DL who cannot shed a block it compounds the problem. People then say "well our run stopping MLB ain't stopping the run. That's his only job and he's not doing it." But that isn't whats going on. What is going on is the entire defense is struggling.

Jon Ritchie was on WIP a few minutes ago and he pretty much said the same thing. He said that offenses fear Trotter. He's big and can move and bust into the line and stop the run. He said he hated going up against Emmons and guys like Trotter because they were big and knew how to play. He said these other guys are too small and they rely on speed too much versus brute strength. He also said that the loss of Kearse affects the run defense because he is a very underrated run defender.

So back to my original point - if the DL can shed blocks and not allow a RB to get going, or if the DL can not allow the OL to move to the LB level, it doesn't look as bad on Trotter. Or if the OLBs can hold the point of attack and force the RB to slow up, it allows pursuit to get there.

This thing is a clusterfarg. It has to get fixed from the front first. Get those guys doing their job and see what happens.

[Wingspan]

Exactly.

Give him some good OLBs and keep blockers off of him and he's fine. He's a numbers to numbers player. That is his effective area. Start getting him outside the numbers and he's out of his comfort zone.

so basically they need to run a 4-4-3 defense. and make sure no one else touches trotter, and on top of that, be sure that he has a clear as day path to the ball carrier in order to make the play.

that, my friends, is the very definition of fearsome middle linebacker.