Rest of Baseball - 2012

[ice grillin you]

so why didn't piazza make it? his numbers got worse and worse as he got older just like a real human being.

theres no doubt in my mind he did roids....but forget that part of it....piazza was a horrendously bad catcher...no way he deserves his name attached to first ballot hall of famer

[QB Eagles]

Hall of Guys Who Played the Game the Right Way and Never Used Substances and Were Always Nice to Sportswriters and Don't Hold the Career Records in Hits or Home Runs or Cy Young Awards. What an exciting place to bring the kids.

In the back of my mind, I kind of hope that some of the people suspected of doing roids were clean the whole time. And that Griffey was juicing through the whole 90s. And Hank Aaron through the 70s for that matter, because it's not like roids were invented in 1995.

[MDS]

bonds and clemens can get in based on what they did before peds

but then people couldnt punish them for doing something everyone else would have done. or whatever.

the hall of fame is beyond a joke and the system is beyond screwed up (for example, someone voted for aaron sele. for example, 3 writers for a golf magazine who dont cover baseball anymore have votes) so whats the point really. they need to blow the thing up and start over but thats not gonna happen

[Rome]

If everyone was cheating then no one was.  The writers are useless and should be forever banned from selecting inductees.

[PhillyPhreak54]

Jack Morris should be in.

Nice of the shteinbag writers who ignored the story in the heat of the roids days now wanna act like this? Lol.

[MDS]

its mainly old farts who's parents kept coloreds out. not that this is the same thing but you cant expect 85 year old golf writers to understand the complexities of peds.

the other part is sanctimonious douches like jon heyman and verducci who think they are gods gift to baseball writing. what really need to happen is other people...former players, execs, etc. need to get votes. it just cant be writers.

[PhillyPhreak54]

Agreed on altering the voter base to include people from the game. I hate when these dirtbag writers get uppity because some player treated them like shtein so they overlook the finished product because of the grudge held because Johnny Outfielder told him to farg himself 17 years ago.

As for the PEDs...baseball (aka Bud Selig and the MLBPA) are directly responsible. However I believe those who use strength altering PEDs to be cheaters and their numbers are fraudulent. I do not support them at all. The fine line being walked here is how do you discern who did what? There is an vast pall of suspicion cast upon that era and that has tainted the innocent. Because baseball, and the media, turned a blind eye its ridiculous that they now want to play jury on these dudes.

I think the guys who doped are scumbags because I am a purist in that sense. I want natural non-enhanced players because that is how it was meant to be played. Its not who can dope the best its about who can perform the best naturally. So screw those steroid users. And screw the sabermetric nerds too because ...well just because.

BTW - in addition to the cellphone stupidity I heard on the radio tonight that MLB has INTERVIEW HATS. Apparently they are making different looking hats that players will have to wear during interviews. The farg?

[MDS]

if you want to be uppity will steroids and act like the hall is heaven and only perfect clean angels can get in then fine.

but barry bonds, cutting out what he did post 2001 when he was on shtein, hit nearly 500 homers and won 2 mvps. he was getting on base 40 percent of the time and always had an ops higher than 1000.

the dude steroids or not was one of the best ever. yes hes a huge cock. yes he technically cheated for what is probably a 3-4 year period early in the 2000s. gaylord perry threw spitballs but hes still in the hall. who knows what was on cy youngs ball. or walter johnson. theyre cool. ty cobb intentionally injured players. hes in.

the only players you can argue whose careers were worthless without roids are mcgwire and sosa.

[QB Eagles]

I want natural non-enhanced players because that is how it was meant to be played. Its not who can dope the best its about who can perform the best naturally.

Nah, it's always been about who can perform the best, period. Professional baseball players have been trying to use chemicals to enhance their performance for over a century... in fact, for much longer than guys have been doing strength and conditioning training, which was initially seen as equally arcane and "unnatural" as substances were. If guys who try to get a chemical edge are doing some immoral and don't belong in the Hall, get ready to kick out all the guys who were known to take stuff for focus, strength, awareness, etc... guys like Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle and Mike Schmidt. Guys who definitely would have used steroids if they were made available to them. Not to mention there are loads of chemicals that the players are ALLOWED to take to enhance their play, and do, right down to the food they eat. They are getting an edge because of what they put in their body. The only difference is the league said X chemical is allowed and Y isn't, probably because Y has some negative health effects and/or has been demonized by the press or government.

It's a museum about baseball. Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens are legendary for their exploits on baseball fields. They are part of the story of baseball and belong in any serious museum about baseball, and recognized as baseball greats. If the Hall continues to go down this path it will become irrelevant. Because the era of guys using chemicals didn't end in 2005, just like it didn't begin in 1995.

Over 10% of the league is taking Adderall, by the way. I guess everyone's just got ADD.

[MDS]

everyone in the football hall is clean, too

no roid users in there. none.

[ice grillin you]

bonds is legendary for his enormously over grown head and clemens for lying to congress...thats what they will be forever remembered for...why would you care if either of them never got in

i dont care if they do get in but jesus you guys sound like some little bitches weeping for barry bonds

he a fat cheating POS human

if i had a vote i would keep bonds out for no other reason than getting indignant with everyone all those years everytime he was asked about roids...you clearly did it fargface and you dont understand why people would bring it up??...the attitudes of some of these roid ragers is worse than the actual act

i dont expect everyone to come clean like andy petitie or mcgwire but i would vote for someone like that way before bonds (in the end id vote for none of them tho)

dont farging get salty when people bring it up like its an off limit topic...same with clemens...its so obvious he did it yet hes going to put his double chin on tv 24/7 for three years straight saying how he didnt do it...show some humility for god sakes

either admit it or crawl in a hole and never be seen again

[MDS]

then youre saying its the bbwaa's place to punish players?

all the baseball hof should be is a place that shows baseball history (good, bad, etc.) and stands out the best of the best of the best.

you cant do that without putting bonds, clemens, mcgwire, sosa, rose, shoeless jose in there. you cant. put it on their plaques, dont give them a ceremony, fine. but they gotta be in there. like it or not they are the best of the best of the best.

[ice grillin you]

then youre saying its the bbwaa's place to punish players?

all the baseball hof should be is a place that shows baseball history (good, bad, etc.) and stands out the best of the best of the best.

you cant do that without putting bonds, clemens, mcgwire, sosa, rose, shoeless jose in there. you cant. put it on their plaques, dont give them a ceremony, fine. but they gotta be in there. like it or not they are the best of the best of the best.

i dont think its anyones place to punish them but no better punishment for ruining the game than to not get into the games most cherished place....but its not even the hall of fame that i really care about....its the records they ruined...id much rather have hank arron/roger maris still have the home run crowns and bonds be in the hof than for bonds to have these completely phony numbers and not be in the hof

the offensive numbers during the steroid era were outrageous....because of roids there became an isane amount of 400 500 hr 3000 hit and just overall ridiculous offensive numbers in general that made good or great players hof'ers....and because of that i dont think they should get in...make a steroid era wing in cooperstown and talk about all these guys...but they shouldnt get an induction ceremony and a bust

[Eagles_Legendz]

bonds was a HOF player before taking steroids.  He and Clemens should be in.  The problem with legislating is you know tooooons of players took them and just didn't get caught (Bagwell, Piazza etc), so it makes no sense to me that those players are going to eventually get in, while someone like Bonds who was vastly superior gets left out.

[Rome]

Baseball was also exciting during that era.  Now it's boring.  Yay cleanliness!