Phillies Offseason Thread

[PhillyPhreak54]

I think the money should have been spent elsewhere, particularly on offense. I would have been fine with bringing Madson back or going with Bell or Nathan rather than dropping fifty farging million on Pap Smear

[Rome]

BTW... Hofmann nails it here:

Papelbon deal shows money is least of Phillies' worries

Rich Hofmann, Daily News Sports Columnist

Philadelphia Daily News


Phillies agree to terms with Papelbon

Papelbon, Phils ink deal

AP source: Papelbon, Phillies agree at $50 million

Phillies, Papelbon agree to terms

Amaro: Madson still in the mix

Money is no object.

Budgets are for losers.

Jonathan Papelbon is the Phillies' closer.

Ruben Amaro Jr. is the luckiest man in the world.

That about sums it up. It is hard to know what else to say. The Phillies wouldn't go 4 years/$44 million for Ryan Madson, their own guy, but they would go 4 years/$50 million for Papelbon (and, if the reports are right and his option vests, 5 years/$60 million). Once again, they have chosen the biggest diamond in the display case.

The numbers suggest that Madson and Papelbon have had very similar results. They also suggest that Madson might be better suited to pitch in Citizens Bank Park (allowing fewer fly balls than Papelbon) and to pitch longer in his career (because he relies less on a fastball and more on a physically forgiving changeup). Papelbon, though, has been a closer for longer. If the mystique of the save situation is a real thing - it is one of the great, raging debates within the sport right now - Papelbon has more experience dealing with it than Madson does.

You can parse it in a lot of ways. Some of this is in the collective mind's eye of the Phillies' wise men. Some of this is probably lower than that, too - just a gut-reaction thing. The baseball merits of the move can be debated, even if Papelbon's excellence really cannot.

Repeat, underline: The guy is a great pitcher. Repeat, underline: It is only money. And whatever the outcome of the baseball debate, there can be little question about the Phillies' current economic state.

They like baubles.

They print money.

They buy what they want.

There can be no financial excuses.

If 80 percent of life is just showing up, the rest is timing - and Amaro has enjoyed the absolute best timing that any first-time general manager could ever expect. You really have to wonder at this point whether there has ever been a notion that passed through his head that was ultimately rejected by his bosses because it cost too much. Such has been the financial transformation of the Phillies' franchise.

But here is the thing: The Phillies are at a point at which they cannot ever let money get in the way of what they are trying to do. That is the only message that can be taken away from a signing such as this one - and, really, from the last few seasons. In previous years, they have suggested that there was a budget, somewhere, but it has never prevented them from getting Roy Oswalt or Cliff Lee or Roy Halladay or Hunter Pence or, well, anyone.

And when an organization gets on that treadmill, good luck explaining to people when you feel as if it is time to get off. Now is clearly not that time.

So, if having a $12.5 million closer prevents the Phillies from properly stocking the rest of their bullpen, this will be a waste. If going this big on a guy to pitch the ninth inning means they cannot work out something with Jimmy Rollins - or replace his production at the plate and in the field - then this will be a shame.

Budget?

Smudge it.

Recalculate it.

Write the next one in pencil.

The most important issue, though, might not come until the middle of the 2012 season. If the Phillies enter the season with such a big payroll that they are hamstrung at the trade deadline - which is the time when you often win and lose a pennant, after the unpredictability of the sport has been demonstrated, after a team's ever-evolving personality shows itself again - this will have been a grave mistake. It cannot be stated often enough.

Of course, it isn't likely to go down like that. In case you missed the news, the Phillies just raised ticket prices. Some back-of-the-envelope math suggests that if you buy all of the available tickets again this season, the Phillies will have somewhere north of $10 million in additional revenue in 2012.

History suggests it will be spent. Here and now, with this veteran team, with this recent run of spending, reality suggests they have no choice.

So write the checks.

Send them fast.

The old money has burned a hole in Amaro's pocket.

And he still has to fix the lineup.

[Rome]

I think the money should have been spent elsewhere, particularly on offense. I would have been fine with bringing Madson back or going with Bell or Nathan rather than dropping fifty farging million on Pap Smear

If the reports are accurate they spent 1.5 million more per season on Papelbon than Madson.  That 1.5 is gonna be a killa.

[SD]

It's really hard to settle this argument until we see what Madson gets. If he gets 4-$44 million then the money is better spent with Papelbon. If there's a significant difference like $4 million per season then yeah it's okay to bitch. I'm not really worried about their budget, they're spending money because they have it.

[Rome]

It's pretty evident that money isn't an issue for these iceholes.  Smug is spending it like he's got Aladdin's Lamp under his arm and that's fine.  Get Rollins re-upped, get a replacement for Polly and we're off to the races.

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

Rollins will then bat 8th, right?!?

[Rome]

10th.

[ice grillin you]

You do if that's what the market demands.  They wanted a top flight closer and money was no object.  Is there some reason you're deliberately not understanding that or are you just doing your usual IGY contrarian thing?

im doing the non homer thing

and lol at the market demanding....the market demanded that the closer position was really deep this offseason and there was zero reason to reach for one

[PhillyGirl]

should have brought this guy in for a looksee:



Bet he'd come on the cheap for ya, IGY

[MDS]

look, queers

if the papelboner deal prohibits them from improving where they need to improve then its something we look back on as a mistake

but if theyre the red sox and they print money and they just wanted papelboner and didnt give a flying farg what he cost, then what difference does it make

they clearly had a high season ticket renewal rate and figure to sell out every game again, make tons and tons money bla bla bla bla lose in the playoffs

[Rome]

Zima?

[Rome]

You do if that's what the market demands.  They wanted a top flight closer and money was no object.  Is there some reason you're deliberately not understanding that or are you just doing your usual IGY contrarian thing?

im doing the non homer thing

and lol at the market demanding....the market demanded that the closer position was really deep this offseason and there was zero reason to reach for one

You still haven't responded to my query.  Of the 'deep' market of closers available, who was better than Papelbon?

Actually, nevermind.  Ed already schooled you twice.  No need to respond. 

[PhillyPhreak54]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Philadelphia-Phillies-Cole-Hamels-Jonathan-Papelbon-free-agency-111211

OK, so how the heck are the Phillies going to sign Cole Hamels?

Serious question, because Hamels is a free agent after this season and, at some point, the Phils' bill is going to come due.

The Phillies can't keep adding and retaining the biggest, most expensive stars. Sooner or later — probably sooner — they're going to implode

First baseman Ryan Howard has yet to even begin his five-year, $125 million contract, and the deal already looks like an albatross. The team's other $20 million players, right-hander Roy Halladay and lefty Cliff Lee, will finish their deals in their mid-30s.

Meanwhile, the team's offense is in decline, and general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. will need to sign at least one free-agent hitter to keep it an appropriate level for a contender. Shortstop Jimmy Rollins and outfielder Michael Cuddyer are among Amaro's targets. Each will play next season at 33.

Whatever the Phillies do, they again should be one of the top teams in the National League. But Hamels and center fielder Shane Victorino can be free agents after next season — and Hamels, who turns 28 on Dec. 27, could command a deal of at least six years in the $23-million to $25-million range

[Geowhizzer]

Igy?

[Munson]

Hamels at 23-25 mil a year? I mean he's been great but is really going to get a deal paying him more then Roy Halladay? I was thinking 20 mil a year max....