2011 Philadelphia Phillies Season Thread (choking awful pos team, DIAF)

SD · July 28, 2011, 02:34:52 PM

Quote from: SunMo on July 28, 2011, 02:32:05 PM
Pence is so farging overrated...and if Ed Wade manages to outlast Rube and get brown+ it will be a sad day for phillies fans

I agree for the most part, but he's a right handed bat and if they're thinking world series this season they're closer to that with Pence than they are with Brown.

PoopyfaceMcGee · July 28, 2011, 02:35:51 PM

Most experts seem to think that Brown for Pence straight up is a bad trade for the Phillies now and a worse one for the future of the team. But Pence happens to be right-handed!

Agreed that if it's Brown + anything else of value, it will make baby Jesus cry.

SunMo · July 28, 2011, 02:40:43 PM

Pence may be right handed, but his numbers against lefties are pedestrian at best.

PoopyfaceMcGee · July 28, 2011, 02:42:26 PM

This thread is not going to improve after a Lincecum/Kendrick matchup, I fear.

Eagles_Legendz · July 28, 2011, 02:42:33 PM

Ludwick farging blows. ANYONE but Ludwick.

Dude has a .300 OBP and a .373 SLG%. I know Petco is a cavern, but his road numbers are .300 OBP and .389 SLG.

In contrast:
Ibanez: .290 OBP and .423 SLG.
Francisco: .328 OBP and .355 SLG (blech).

Forget the fact that he can't get on base, Rollins has a higher slugging% than Ludwick does.

Pass.

Eagles_Legendz · July 28, 2011, 02:44:25 PM

And I like Pence, but I'm out on giving up Brown+ for him, though it helps this year.

Worley + Singleton or Cosart + some 2nd tier prospect like Jiwan James/Pettibone etc is the most I'm offering.

SunMo · July 28, 2011, 02:51:20 PM

IGY and I have had this argument before and I know i'm in the minority, but...

I don't see why this year is WS or bust. I mean, I understand why other people feel that way, but I just don't. Do I want them to win the WS this year? Of course, it would be devastating if they don't. But this isn't some team just built for this year. They still have Halladay, Lee, Hamels moving forward, they have young bullpen talent in Madson (if they re-sign), basticho, Stutes. They have Howard, Utley, Victorino coming back, admittedly getting older. They lose Lidge, Ibanez, Polanco, Oswalt, and Blanton off of their salary so they can sign some other players if they choose moving forward. I just don't see this year being the last year they can compete. That is why I don't want them to trade brown or cosart really. Singleton I don't care about, he'll never play for the Phillies in the bigs.

PoopyfaceMcGee · July 28, 2011, 02:52:55 PM

I just don't get the inclusion of Worley in any deal. Even if you assume that he will come back to earth and eventually be a #4 starter type down the line, he is dominating this year, and this year is THE year. So are you all just banking on Oswalt coming back strong, then? Because with Blanton toast, you are looking at Kendrick as your #4 starter if Oswalt has to shut it down. Much more gaping a hole than the desperate need for a (and seemingly any) right-handed bat.

Eagles_Legendz · July 28, 2011, 03:16:21 PM

Worley's swing and miss % is second worst for pitchers with enough innings. It isn't going to last. He's been great this year but I don't think his stuff is good enough to hold up.

And even if it does, he's still the 4th starter and a legit OF bat has a bigger impact than the 4th starter in the playoffs.

SunMo · July 28, 2011, 03:19:00 PM

yeah, Worley's on a great run right now, but he's going to crash hard. now is the time to sell high. Kendrick was the same way when he first came up.

PoopyfaceMcGee · July 28, 2011, 03:26:28 PM

I get it... You guys hate AZNs.

SD · July 28, 2011, 03:56:48 PM

Quote from: SunMo on July 28, 2011, 03:19:00 PM
yeah, Worley's on a great run right now, but he's going to crash hard. now is the time to sell high. Kendrick was the same way when he first came up.

yup

sell high. Pretty sure other GMs know this too

PoopyfaceMcGee · July 28, 2011, 04:20:41 PM

If other GMs know that, his value won't be high anyway. So again, it makes no sense to trade him unless you find a GM that thinks he'll have a sub-3.00 career ERA.

SD · July 28, 2011, 04:26:22 PM

Quote from: FastFreddie on July 28, 2011, 04:20:41 PM
If other GMs know that, his value won't be high anyway. So again, it makes no sense to trade him unless you find a GM that thinks he'll have a sub-3.00 career ERA.

they aren't going to get shtein for him. Other GMs know he's going to crash next season. I'm fine with keeping him. The people saying "ship Worley instead of Cosart/Brown" are overvaluing Worley.

PoopyfaceMcGee · July 28, 2011, 04:44:12 PM

Fun stat which will get even better if the Phils deal for him:

Ludwick OPS vs. lefties in 2011: .727
MAAAberry OPS vs. lefties in 2011: .795

(courtesy of PhillyGameday on Twitter)