2011 Philadelphia Phillies Season Thread (choking awful pos team, DIAF)

[ice grillin you]

beachy with a sick 11 k's thru five in his first start back off the DL

[Sgt PSN]

you are absolutely ridiculous.

for this season id rather have:

halladay - hamels - oswalt - blanton/kendrick and werth in the five hole

than

halladay - lee - hamels - oswalt and ibanez/polanco/francisco ect. ect. ect... in the five hole


i dont understand why that is so ridiculous

They have the best record in baseball, that's why it's ridiculous.  Subtract Lee and add Werth and you still probably have a similar record except now they are putting up a few more runs while giving up a few more as well.  In the end, it probably balances out and the only difference is that the games are a little more watchable due to a few more home runs.

[MDS]

http://www.thefightins.com/chris/johnny-sits-down-to-watch-dnl/

i remember marcus hayes came to talk to my class way back when i was a young pup a temple. now he... is this guy. p.s. who is the chick?

[ice grillin you]

you are absolutely ridiculous.

for this season id rather have:

halladay - hamels - oswalt - blanton/kendrick and werth in the five hole

than

halladay - lee - hamels - oswalt and ibanez/polanco/francisco ect. ect. ect... in the five hole


i dont understand why that is so ridiculous

They have the best record in baseball, that's why it's ridiculous.  Subtract Lee and add Werth and you still probably have a similar record except now they are putting up a few more runs while giving up a few more as well.  In the end, it probably balances out and the only difference is that the games are a little more watchable due to a few more home runs.

if you think its ridiculous you dont know how baseball works and i cant help you

even the homerrific lil guy knows its a legitimate argument

[Geowhizzer]

you are absolutely ridiculous.

for this season id rather have:

halladay - hamels - oswalt - blanton/kendrick and werth in the five hole

than

halladay - lee - hamels - oswalt and ibanez/polanco/francisco ect. ect. ect... in the five hole


i dont understand why that is so ridiculous

They have the best record in baseball, that's why it's ridiculous.  Subtract Lee and add Werth and you still probably have a similar record except now they are putting up a few more runs while giving up a few more as well.  In the end, it probably balances out and the only difference is that the games are a little more watchable due to a few more home runs.

Remember, Werth is hitting in the .230 range himself.  It's not guaranteed that they would score a whole lot more runs.

[MDS]

its impossible to say how werth would do if he was here, though. hes always been a streaky guy, but hitting behind howard and without the 'pressure' of being the bmoc he could presumably do better.

its a good what if debate. and when we get to the playoffs and it comes down to josh willingham or polanco instead of werth or it comes down to cliff lee, not vance worley, then we might have an answer.

[BigEd76]

can't strike out Michael Martinez?  Outta here.  Miguel Batista got released

[Sgt PSN]

even the homerrific lil guy knows its a legitimate argument

I've spent more time on the crapper than the little guy has seen baseball.  I'm not minimizing the value of the 5 hole but you are either putting a little too much stock into in or maybe into Werth.  Or both. 

This year, the Phils are averaging 4.1 runs/game.  From 2008-10 (with Werth as an every day player) they averaged 4.9.  So there is a significant drop off.  Meanwhile, Phillies pitching has an ERA of 3.02 so far this year but had an average ERA of 3.97 from 2008-2010, which means they are giving up .95 less runs per game.  So the loss of Werth and addition of Lee, appears to still slightly favor the current roster.   

This doesn't mean that I think the Phils are just fine as they are right now, because there is definitely room for improvement in the lineup and the Phils need to do something to bring in a legit bat to hit behind Howard.  But at the same time, you're acting like Werth took half of the Phils' offensive production with him to DC and that his presence was some sort of magic elixor that made everything gel on offense when in fact, they've been a feast or famine offense for the better part of the last 7 years....with and without Werth.  You should be used to it by now dook. 

[MDS]

francisco in for ibanez today

they had a day off monday and have another next monday. this isnt a rest for raul. its a benching. finally.

[Rome]

It's kinda surprising considering he's got a fairly decent history against Lohse.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/batter_vs_pitcher.cgi?batter=ibanera01&pitcher=lohseky01#gotresults&batter=ibanera01&pitcher=lohseky01&min_year_game=2002&max_year_game=2010&post=1&ajax=1&submitter=1

[PhillyGirl]

http://www.csnphilly.com/06/22/11/Phillies-Manuel-makes-noise-He-wants-a-h/news_phillies.html?blockID=536779&feedID=704&awid=8980725183553845119

[ice grillin you]

http://www.csnphilly.com/06/22/11/Phillies-Manuel-makes-noise-He-wants-a-h/news_phillies.html?blockID=536779&feedID=704&awid=8980725183553845119

its impossible to say how werth would do if he was here, though.

one argument against says its ridiculous because of their record in june and another references his stats on the washington nationals

i should have known better to have even brought up a hypothetical like that

[MDS]

what the farg you talkin bout boy

[Rome]

Werth clearly would have been better than Lee in the five hole.

/thread

[Geowhizzer]

That was a hell of a play by Berkman.