07/08 Phillies Offseason Thread

[Wingspan]

shockingly youre wrong again...howard being kept down longer than he wanted is a factor in him reaching free agency later in his career...hes gonna want to be paid for that...is it the primary factory in the negotiations of course not...is it A factor in them trying to break the bank...you bet your life

Find me one major league player that has entered into arbitration admitting he should have stayed in the minors a little longer...then, and only then will your argument hold any credibility.

[ice grillin you]

im not arguing im giving you fact

edit - also comparing ryan howards minor league career numbers and the way he was kept down combined with his advanced age compares to very few others guys

[smeags]

howard deserves to be paid. for once show the fanbase that as an organization you are actually trying to be first rate instead of the crap we have come to expect from this front office/ownership.

the farging kid won rookie of the year, follwed it up with an mvp season and then in an "off" year still put up bigtime slugger numbers.

 

[Wingspan]

Correction: It's an irrelevant "opinion" there is nothing factual about your statement.

[smeags]

the fact remains that howard should be paid.

[Rome]

the fact remains that howard should be paid.

What exactly should he be paid?  This isn't a typical situation, sean.  If the Phillies are offering him Pujols money plus a kicker and he doesn't accept it, is that the Phillies' fault?

If he's looking for "historic" money then he's barking up the wrong tree with this team.

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

Well, maybe that's his point.  While the ballpark is friendly for hitters, he probably would rather play in his hometown of St. Louis or in a big money city like New York or Boston.

[ice grillin you]

its hard to argue this without knowing exactly what each side is offering but if hes offered puljos money and wants 20 million more than that pay his ass...remember to that puljos signed three years ago...the price tag has gone up since then

the way i look at any phillie negotiation is that until i hear that the player is asking for something unreasonable ill always side against the team as i dont trust their ownership on anything

and im not the biggest ryan howard fan...i still believe hes a guy that could drop off at anytime...but jesus how do you deny what hes done for this franchise both on and off the field

[smeags]

the fact remains that howard should be paid.

What exactly should he be paid?  This isn't a typical situation, sean.  If the Phillies are offering him Pujols money plus a kicker and he doesn't accept it, is that the Phillies' fault?

If he's looking for "historic" money then he's barking up the wrong tree with this team.

the phils could've upped their offer and tried to avoid arbitration. sure they offered pujols money but albert's offer was how long ago ? once again the phils are behind the times.

my point is this team has a bad rep when it comes to paying players. help yourself pr wise with the fans. another million or so would've went a long way.

btw - i am not saying howard deserves the world, just the phils need to learn how to deal with these situations better.

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

the phils every team in Philly needs to learn how to deal with these situations better.

[Rome]

It's fair to assume that the Phillies are being cheap and hard-headed with Howard because they've been cheap and hard-headed with players in the past.

However - they did offer Rolen a ridiculous deal.  They paid (and continue to pay) Jim Thome an insane contract.  They paid Burrell crazy money.  They paid Rollins and Utley market value deals (and maybe a little higher in Utley's case) at the time. 

Their payroll has been in the 90-100 million dollar range since they moved into the new stadium so it's not like they've been the Tampa Bay Devil Rays.

All I'm saying is there's a chance the Phillies' longterm offer could be very generous.  It could be that Howard and his "camp" are the ones being greedy and selfish.  I know it's hard to believe considering the history of this club but there's enough recent evidence to suggest that both sides are being unreasonable, not just the Phillies this time.

[smeags]

they offered rolen that deal when they already knew there was zero (0) chance of him accepting. the thome deal was mostly to help put people in the seats but i will give them some credit there. paying burrell crazy money with a no trade clause shows like it did with abreu and lieby that the few times they did spend they spent stupidly.

sure they have spent 90-100mil lately but the issue is that if they spent that money a bit more wisely (eaton for example) and added just a little bit more to that 90-100mil we could've done a lot better as a team.

the word out there is the phillies were willing to pay rowand $10mil a year along with going after derek lowe and paying him big bucks. well, where's that money going now ? why not toss some of it to howard, who is looking more & more like a crybaby to save yourself the situation you have.

[ice grillin you]

its also possible both sides are being reasonable and the phillies wont go that extra step to get the deal done and up there payroll from 90-100 to 100-110

[Wingspan]

Keep in mind that whether you like it or not...the phils work within a budget. Howard is eligible for free agency in 2011...where he is going to make a ton of money.

YOu want to give him $25M/yr? Fine...but then what do you give Jimmy Rollins? Who's contract also expires in 2011? Utley's after 2012? And Hamel's the same year?

I am not saying howard does or doesn't deserve the money. But if you look what A-Rod's contract did to Texas, that will happen here. They can not pay them all what the market may bear.

Unless you're ok with ticket prices rivaling NFL prices.

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

IGY would pay higher ticket prices if they'd increase their payroll.  He's the wrong person to make that argument to.