2007 Philadelphia Phillies Thread - DIVISION CHAMPS MOTHER fargER!!!!

[ice grillin you]

you think you could email me with what youre really saying?

[MDS]

Only if we can make out first.

[PhillyPhreak54]

Greg Dobbs is a moron who was made to be a DH/PH.

Another great play in the field for him. And then Howard shows his great fielding prowess and allows the game to be tied up.

But hey, its all Charlie's fault, right?

Stupid players is what it is.

why do you take the time to defend charlie manuel?  he's indefensible...he's a pathetic manager who loses games for them. 

I defend him because the amount of shtein he catches is more than what he should. I'll say it again; he is not the best manager nor is he even in the top half of the best in the ML, but he is not as horrible as he is made out to be.

It's the players. Because under Mr. Philadelphia God, Larry Bowa, the same mistakes were made. And Bowa, who was worshipped (and for the record I liked because he wouldn't take shtein), used to use the bullpen the same way. But yet Charlie is killed and Bowa was not. Why is that? It is because Charlie is ripped for being a good ol' southern boy. The majority of the fans hear WIP gettin' on him and they follow suit and that drives me nuts.

These players would be doing the same things whether Leyland was in the dugout or whomever you can name as better than Charlie. People will say "but Leyland won't take any shtein" well, neither did Bowa and what did that do to help? It made us feel good to hear Larry rip players and Dallas Green still does it, but it didn't make them play any better.

Hell, Gillick criticizes his 3-4-5 hitters and then is called into Monty's office and chastised for ripping them. What sense does that make? None. So not only are the players dumb, but so is the front office people who draft and sign these players.

I do not believe managers lose games, I believe players do. Charlie can't help them field balls. Charlie can't make them get clutch hits with RISP. Charlie can't throw strikes, etc.

And the popular comeback to those points is "well, the manager is the guy who should instruct them". And to that I say; yeah, he is. But that instruction only goes so far. The players are still the ones who have to get it done, right? Charlie (or any manager) can talk until they are blue in the face about fundamentals but it is the players who have to play, not the managers.

Maybe I would agree that Charlie is bad if these players all of a sudden got bad once Bowa left, but they had the same problems when Larry was here. Shoddy pitching, shoddy defense and no clutch hitting.

[rjs246]

I can promise that no one reads that.

[SD_Eagle5]

there is no good manuel....thats the point

That sums it up nicely

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

I can promise that no one reads that.

Correct. 

[BigEd76]

settle down, igy.  I was just pointing out that the Phils are facing a no-name AAA pitcher today on FOX and have Cole going against Kyle Davies tomorrow, which are two winnable games.  I also threw Livan's name out there because he's beaten the Phils 10 times in his career, including 2 complete games.

A quick note about last night's game:  if this Zagurski kid continues to pitch well, he could be a Philadelphia favorite.  Philly loves fat athletes...

[PhillyPhreak54]

For now, expect less pregame glad-handing from the Phillies. Manuel seemed disgusted at all of the posturing that went on in the sixth inning, after Dontrelle Willis threw behind Jon Lieber (in retaliation for the same) then taunted the Phillies' dugout when the inning ended.

"That wasn't a fight," Manuel said scornfully. "It's a fight when you fight."

Manuel believes the many friendships between the players on the teams kept the confrontation from escalating; that the Phillies maybe ate too much crow from the Marlins in the first place.

"If there's bad blood, there shouldn't be all that kissy-facing and high-fiving before the game," Manuel said. "When you put on this uniform, it's a fight."

Yes, Manuel understands that the game has changed since he played in the 1970s and '80s. Free agency, trades, the network of youth and amateur all-star teams, shared agents and more players playing in college often leads to allegiances between players whose pro teams are bitter rivals.

Wes Helms is a perfect example. A Marlin last season, Helms, 31, is with his fourth National League organization and in his 14th professional season. He knows a lot of people, but doesn't believe he fraternizes too much.

"There's a fine line. You say, 'Hello. Good Luck.' You don't go over there and hug 'em," Helms said. "I think, sometimes, it goes on a little more than it should."

[PhillyPhreak54]

MDS' boy Marcus Hayes has some good news for him;

It's OK to look now
By MARCUS HAYES
hayesm@phillynews.com

ATLANTA - Good news for Jewish Phillies fans:

Maalox is now kosher.

The Phillies' anxiety-laden hijinx continued for a fourth straight game last night when they blew a sixth-inning lead.

This time, the miscues didn't cost the Phillies a win; they overcame their latest follies with an 8-3 win over the Braves, the first of a three-game series here.

That's because they tacked two runs on Tim Hudson in the seventh; two more from the bat of healed MVP Ryan Howard in the eighth off Tyler Yates; and one from Jayson Werth on a pinch-hit homer in the ninth off Peter Moylan.

Even with a solid outing from Jamie Moyer - seven innings, two earned runs, now 5-3 - ineptness afield dampened the win.

"Yeah. That's the way you play," manager Charlie Manuel cracked, dripping sarcasm. "Just pick it up and fire it around."

With Braves on second and third and one out in the sixth, Jeff Francoeur grounded sharply to the left of third baseman Greg Dobbs.

Oddly, Kelly Johnson chose to not go home; instead, he froze a few feet off third, awaiting Dobbs' throw. Meanwhile, Martin Prado broke from second, crossing Dobbs about the time Dobbs fielded the ball.

Dobbs had no play on Prado. He assumed Johnson had broken for home.

Shortstop Jimmy Rollins did not effectively inform Dobbs that he should hold the ball and get one of the lead runners: "I heard Jimmy yelling something."

Dobbs threw to first and got Francoeur.

Howard, in his first game back off the 15-day disabled list, twirled, double-clutched, then fired home, way late to get Johnson. His throw went wild, allowing Prado to score, too.

Instead of no runs, runners on first and third and two out, two runs scored to tie the game.

"I probably shouldn't have made the throw," Howard acknowledged.

The play mirrored some bizarre events in the three-game series the Phillies just finished in Florida - which left Manuel so frustrated, he refused to discuss it after the finale Thursday.

Manuel was less frustrated last night, in part because Howard was back.

Rollins' doubles in the first and third fueled the 3-1 lead the Phillies took into the sixth. Howard lined out to end the first, flied out to centerfield to strand two runners in the third and struck out to strand two more in the fifth.

With one out in the seventh, Hudson hit Chase Utley, unleashed a wild pitch to open first base, and then intentionally walked Howard. Pat Burrell's flyout and Aaron Rowand's walk brought Dobbs to the plate.

He singled off first baseman Scott Thorman's glove, scoring Utley and Howard for a 5-3 lead.

Howard had to score from second on the play. It was his harshest test of the left thigh strain that sent him to the DL.

"My leg felt great," Howard said. "I didn't feel anything running the bases."

That lead moved to 7-3 in the eighth. With runners on first and second, two outs and light-hitting rookie Michael Bourn on deck, the Braves let Yates pitch to Howard. He doubled to right-centerfield.

"The double felt great," Howard said, noting that he felt focused in his earlier at-bats as well.

In front of a boisterous cheering section of some 20 devotees, rookie lefty Mike Zagurski, a Class A standout 13 days before, pitched a perfect eighth. His girlfriend, aunt and uncle, all Atlantans, were there, as well as his parents, who flew in from Omaha, Neb., and his brother, who flew in from New Mexico, and a buddy from Boston.

Zagurski filled the roster space of injured closer Brett Myers, who hit the 15-day disabled list with a right shoulder strain suffered Wednesday.

Werth then smacked his third homer, all since Tuesday. Yoel Hernandez dealt a smooth ninth.

Smooth . . . like a minty antacid.

[PhillyPhreak54]

I hate Barajas more each day. Dude is not only a thief, a coward and a zesty baseball player but he should just keep his mouth taped shut.

He said that the wind played a part in Lieber throwing behind Dontrelle.

Dude....go Hancock yourself. Please.

[Rome]

Dude....go Hancock yourself. Please.

I'm stealing that shtein blind.

[BigEd76]

Barajas made the first and last out of the 3rd inning

[Rome]

Renteria is wearing Eaton out.  Losers still up 5-4 thanks to Chase Ruth.

There's a couple of little punks sitting behind the Braves dugout wearing Phillies jerseys.  Of course, Daddy's letting them stand up and wave, talk on the cell phone to mimsy, hold up Aramark signs and generally makes fools of themselves.

I hate them almost as much as I hate the idiot PBP douche on Fox.  He makes Wheels sound soothing.

[BigEd76]

3 outs away from being over .500 for the first time this year 

[Rome]

SIXTOE!

Bums win.

I hate to keep harping on the fans in the stands but did anyone else notice the fat pigs sitting behind first plate?  There was like five  them and they weighed at least 1,000 pounds between the five.  Holy shtein, Atlanta women... ever heard of a salad??