Phillies season 6

Started by MURP, July 18, 2005, 03:34:51 PM

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BigEd76


BigEd76

Pie!





Here's how close Pat's triple was...  :o :-X




PhillyGirl

QuoteBest course may be no trade
By Jim Salisbury
Inquirer Columnist

Eleven days before the trade deadline, the Phillies, in spite of their flaws and inconsistencies, are very much in the hunt for a postseason berth. Fans are clamoring for general manager Ed Wade to make a deal that will get hearts racing.

No one, not even Wade, knows how these next 11 days will play out, but there's a chance that the Phillies' best chance of making the postseason might entail what would be an unpopular strategy in the public sector.

It pains us to admit this, because we like a little July action as much as the next guy, but the Phils might be best off staying largely with what they have.

Don't misunderstand. This is still a team that would benefit from another starting pitcher. But considering what the Phillies might have to give up to get one, not to mention some of the uninspiring talent that is available, they might be best served adding a starter who costs nothing.

Cole Hamels, anyone?

In a perfect world, he'd spend another month or so in the minor leagues. But there's nothing perfect about these Phillies, especially when sub-.500 pitchers such as Kip Wells are being mentioned as possible additions at the hefty cost of Ryan Howard.

Hamels, even with his limited experience, probably could give the Phils everything that Wells would. And he'd give them a lefty in the rotation. And he wouldn't cost anything.

"I'm not ruling any possibility out in regards to Cole," said Wade, who, like everyone else in the Phillies organization, is a big fan of the kid's stuff and his mental makeup.

After last night's dramatic, 5-4 victory over the Los Angeles Dodgers - Howard's two-run home run in the 10th was the difference - the Phillies remained in third place in the NL East, five games behind Washington, which also won. Entering the night, the Phillies were second in the wild-card chase, 41/2 games behind Atlanta, which played in San Francisco late last night.

When the standings look like this in the third week in July, people expect general managers to add pieces through trades.

The expectations for Wade are huge because he is in his eighth year presiding over a club that has enjoyed rising payrolls and rising talent levels but has never made the postseason during his tenure. If the Phillies don't make the postseason, ownership might not be able to ignore the calls for his head.

But Wade is in a tough spot because his two best trade chips - Howard and Billy Wagner - are crucial to the success of the very team on which his job may ride.

Wagner would be attractive to teams because he's a top closer with the innards to handle big-game pressure. His contract is also up at the end of this season, which would make him a nice fit for a team like Boston, which still has a long-term commitment to Keith Foulke.

But what would happen to the Phillies' postseason chances if they dealt Wagner? Ugueth Urbina is a closer by trade, but the whole idea of getting him was to give the Phils a two-inning hammer at the end of games. Letting Wagner go would weaken the Phillies, even if they got a decent starting pitcher for him.

That brings us to Howard. Once upon a time, he was prime trade bait, a big bat blocked by an even bigger bat in Jim Thome. Howard still would fetch a nice price, but how can the Phils even think of dealing him now, given Thome's struggles with his health and production?

Thome could be back in the Phillies' lineup early next month, with Howard staying on the roster as insurance and the big bat this bench needs.

It's no secret that the Phils would be open to dealing Thome and going with Howard full-time. But no one is going to take Thome until he proves he's healthy, regardless of how much salary the Phillies offer to pay. For the remainder of this season, it would behoove the Phils to hang on to Howard, gamble that Thome can be the Thome of old, and make a decision on who stays and who goes over the winter. If Thome can give the Phillies two good months, he could help them get to the postseason, and he could convince a team to trade for him in the off-season, a move that would allow the Phils to get younger.

The task of improving these Phillies for the stretch drive is further complicated by finances and a weak farm system. The Phils already are over budget with a $95 million payroll. Adding a piece might require moving some salary. But if that piece requires moving Hamels or Gavin Floyd or Michael Bourn, it probably won't happen, because the system already has suffered big losses the last few years.

There are no easy calls here. The Phillies are contenders and fans want them to be buyers at the trade deadline. That's understandable.

But we can't help but wonder for how long they'll remain contenders if they pay the prices other teams will seek.

It won't be a popular call, but Wade's best strategy over these next 11 days might be to keep a close eye on Cole Hamels and proceed cautiously on the trade front.

Contact staff writer Jim Salisbury at 215-854-4983 or jsalisbury@phillynews.com.

Thoughts?
"Oh, yeah. They'll still boo. They have to. They're born to boo. Just now, they'll only boo with two Os instead of like four." - Larry Andersen

Seabiscuit36

Its a good synopsis of where this team is.  I think Hamels is better than stinking kip wells.  The phils should try to unload Ugeth Urbina asap to get some young prospects and Wags if the deal is worth it.  Yes the Phils have an outside shot at the playoffs but they wont get anywhere in the playoffs so why not reup/retool for next year. 
"For all the civic slurs, for all the unsavory things said of the Philadelphia fans, also say this: They could teach loyalty to a dog. Their capacity for pain is without limit." -Bill Lyons

mikey418

Wow...it looks like Burrell was out by a mile.....
The wannabe sponsor of Stallworth and Baskett

PhillyGirl

Quote from: mikey418 on July 20, 2005, 07:57:29 AM
Wow...it looks like Burrell was out by a mile.....

No, the angle of the camera shows that the ball is there, but his glove wasn't actually that close to Burrell.
"Oh, yeah. They'll still boo. They have to. They're born to boo. Just now, they'll only boo with two Os instead of like four." - Larry Andersen

Rome

Quote from: BigEd76 on July 19, 2005, 11:43:34 PM
Wagner didn't blow a save.  It was 3-3 when Myers and Penny were still in....

That's right.  No blown saves during a tie game.

Duh.   :-D

Philly_Crew

I would go with Hamels over Kip Wells.  Keep Howard and keep trying to move Thome.  I still think Ed could get a decent offer for Wagner.  I don't think Wagner will be the reason this team either makes or doesn't make the playoffs and I hope they move him.

Wingspan

the phils should go young now. and by doing that, you are not giving anything up as far as letting the season play out.

leave howard in the lineup for god's sake. if thome plays as an everyday guy again, i will personally shove a shovel up everyone on the phillies asses.

bring up cole hammels and let him pitch in the majors. he thinks he can do it? let him prove it. it is high time this group stops coddleing prospects until they become too soft to be effective (ala gavin floyd) i know he's only 21, but let's see what he can do.

i would also trade wagner at this point. he has lost something this season. not a lot, but enough to show that he is not as automatic as he once was. urbina is just fine as the philths closer.

i honestly do not think this team will make the postseason, as this last stretch fits into their M.O...that when the pressure is off (i.e. they lose alot in a short stretch) they pull a couple of series out. but when it's time to really play they fold. but they can make some moves to at least show some promise.
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rjs246

Wanna know something funny? I pay so little attention to baseball that until I saw the pictures in this thread I thought that Howard was white. Go Flyers!
Is rjs gonna have to choke a bitch?

Let them eat bootstraps.

PhillyPhreak54

Cole Hamels is not big league ready yet. He didn't have a good start last night control wise (5 walks).

He still needs seasoning. He'll be ready in September.

PhillyGirl

Made the mistake of putting on Gargano and his idiot sidekick just now. Just in time to hear them ripping Abreu and Burrell to shreds. ::)
"Oh, yeah. They'll still boo. They have to. They're born to boo. Just now, they'll only boo with two Os instead of like four." - Larry Andersen

PhillyPhreak54

Mike Miss is actually on the Phils side.

Gargano is still in his "the Phillies killed my dog" mode.

PhillyGirl

Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on July 20, 2005, 10:48:28 AM
Mike Miss is actually on the Phils side.

Gargano is still in his "the Phillies killed my dog" mode.

Dude, he just talked about how much he hates Abreu and Burrell.

Its nauseating.
"Oh, yeah. They'll still boo. They have to. They're born to boo. Just now, they'll only boo with two Os instead of like four." - Larry Andersen

PhillyGirl

QuoteBurrell, a lumbering baserunner, could have settled for a double. Maybe before closer Billy Wagner recently started barking about the team's often complacent play, he would have.

He didn't last night.

"That's what I'm talking about," said Wagner, who might have lost the game if not for the big hits. "Pat stretching that into a triple - that was huge. The home run was a plus."

QuoteIt was Wagner's opinion 3 weeks ago that, given their energy level at the time, the Phillies couldn't make the playoffs. And now?

"We've played scrappy. We've played with a lot of urgency," Wagner said. "This team's got a lot of character."

Poor Wags last night...I didn't realize how many pitches he threw. And it was BRUTAL outside yesterday. Maybe the worst suffocating humidity I've felt in years.
"Oh, yeah. They'll still boo. They have to. They're born to boo. Just now, they'll only boo with two Os instead of like four." - Larry Andersen